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Old 11-09-2024, 11:32 PM
Behdad Behdad is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2016
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Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines
 
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Default Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines

I have problem typing Persian verse (right-to-left). The problem is that each line of Persian verse (which in Persian is named Beyt) comomnly consists of two pieces (which in Persian is named a Mesra'), in a way that the verse in its entirety is seen in two "columns". Although it does necessarily need to be so, it would be more eye-catching if both pieces of every single line have justified alignment, which will lead to the two "columns" have a Justified alignment. I manage to give the end of the whole line a Justified alignment by pressing Shift+Enter, which naturally includes the second piece of a line, but I am unable to make the first piece (left piece, as Persian is a right-to-left language) have a justified alignment. I attach two images, showing the acceptable and unacceptable alignmnets in the first (left) piece of every line. I use "Tab" to create columns. Please note that using tables for this purpose would be totally good-for-nothing, as the poem I am typing is several hundred pages. Now, I try to attach an image of the acceptable (preferred) format (originally typed in an Iranian text editing program named Zarnegār):


Acceptable Sample .jpg and an image of the unacceptable format (one that I dislike, typed in MS Office Word):
[ATTACH]
21136
[/ATTACH]

I had to edit the text and photos. Thank you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Unacceptable sample.jpg (27.3 KB, 22 views)

Last edited by Behdad; 11-10-2024 at 01:44 AM.
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Old 11-10-2024, 12:09 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2021
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Your snapshots did not appear.
How to attach a screenshot in this forum.

Would a two-column table, without borders, serve your purpose?
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Old 11-10-2024, 01:42 AM
Behdad Behdad is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2016
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Tables will not be useful, as the verse is several hundred pages long. I need a professional method. An Iranian program named Zarnegār specially developed for editing texts does this easily. I wonder why such important editing option was not provided for in Microsoft Office Word.
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Old 11-10-2024, 03:03 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behdad View Post
Tables will not be useful, as the verse is several hundred pages long. I need a professional method. An Iranian program named Zarnegār specially developed for editing texts does this easily. I wonder why such important editing option was not provided for in Microsoft Office Word.

Each line could be a separate table row.
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Old 11-11-2024, 01:51 AM
Italophile Italophile is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behdad View Post
An Iranian program named Zarnegār specially developed for editing texts does this easily. I wonder why such important editing option was not provided for in Microsoft Office Word.
If you already have access to software that will do the job easily, why not use it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behdad View Post
I wonder why such important editing option was not provided for in Microsoft Office Word.
It is only an "important editing option" to you and, perhaps, a very few others. The vast majority of Word users do not require such an option, and commercial software is always designed to meet the needs of the many not the few.
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Old 12-01-2024, 08:30 AM
Eowyn Eowyn is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Mac OS X Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2016 for Mac
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If the right column of the mesra is meant to be read first, and then the left column of the mesra is meant to be read second, may I suggest that instead of using "TAB" to create columns, you use the "COLUMNS" feature of Word (sometimes referred to as "newspaper columns.")

Begin with a blank page.
Go to the LAYOUT tab and choose "2 columns."
The paragraph should now be formatted to use full justification (ideally, using a style).
Type the first beyt.
Either use the shortcut key (in my version of Word, COMMAND-SHIFT-RETURN) or else LAYOUT, BREAK, NEW COLUMN.
Type the second beyt.

If this solves the problem of justification, you will probably want to increase the space between the columns. This would involve going back to LAYOUT, but choosing "more columns". There will be a dialog box, where the number of columns should be (already) set to 2, and you will need to change the spacing and confirm it should apply to the WHOLE DOCUMENT, and NOT "this point forward". You should NOT need to change the column widths, Microsoft should be able to narrow the columns by itself if you play with the spacing between.

I must confess that I was unable to verify this possible solution. Evidently, my version of Word knows I am a mostly monolingual American, and the "newspaper columns" would not follow the right-to-left rules even when I switched the language and font.

If this does NOT solve correctly, the other idea I had was to set a style for the left beyt paragraph that involves a "frame" which is a less-used feature of Word.
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Old 12-03-2024, 04:45 AM
Behdad Behdad is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2016
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The Iranian software is in practice of no other use, as Word is the most common word processor program and .doc files are easily shared with and usable by other people. It would mean paying additional money for nothing. The Iranian software is used mostly by publishers.

As to the feature of my interest, which you argued "It is only an 'important editing option' to you and, perhaps, a very few others", you may be right, but please note that all nations are Microsoft's audience, and typing Persian poems in their most desirable format can be important for any Persian-speaking person and a useful, pleasant feature in many contexts.
Anyway, I thank you for your contribution, I found it educational.
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Old 12-03-2024, 02:56 AM
Behdad Behdad is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2016
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The solution is not practical, because you have to complete the first column and then go to the second one in the same page.
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Old 12-03-2024, 03:26 AM
Behdad Behdad is offline Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Windows 11 Problem typing Persian poetry and justify all lines Office 2016
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Dear Eowin,

Your solution is great and works! only using mere Justify will not do and you will need to press Shift+Enter in the end of both mesra's in all beyts (lines).

Please note that you used the words mesra’ and beyt the wrong way: a beyt consists of two mesra’s. Nearly all types of Persian poems consist of beyts, each consisting of two mesra’s, and the most common – and reasonable – way of writing/typing them is to put two mesra’s in the same line, facing each other. The reason is that either the last words in two mesra’s in the same beyt (line) rhyme, or the last words in all the beyts (end of all second mesra's) rhyme. Another reason is that the second mesra' in each beyt (line) is often a continuation of the first mesra' and is only separated because of the rules of poetry.

Also please note that "Layout>Breaks>Column" is different from "Layout/Columns"; it is the former which serves my purpose, which you proposed. The subtle point is that using the former, you are able to go on typing the opposite mesra' in the same line right away, but using the latter you would have to complete a single column before you went to the opposite column in the same page.

What is more, as Persian (Farsi) is a right-to-left language, the right-to-left box has to be ticked under the Column option in both cases.

Using an invisible table could be a useful solution for short poems, but not for a very long one like Shāhnāmeh, taking hundreds of pages, as it adds considerbly to the file size. Putting a single table in each page would again not work, because there is a chance in case of certain poems that the poem will be modified, adding to or reducing the length of the poem and resulting in an inconsistent format. Using tables, other problems might arise too depending on every person's experience.

I again appreciate the help and contribution of everybody on this post.

Last edited by Behdad; 12-03-2024 at 04:31 AM. Reason: It needed corrections and clarifications, as I am inexperienced in using the forum.
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