WORD 97, Styles and MisFormatting of Text

[dw85745]

I originally typed my entire document using double spacing and then using the left indent and hanging indents to position text such that a paragraph was offset from the left margin, a number typed (e.g. 2. ) and then the rest of the body of the text was offset as a hanging indent. NO styles were used.


I am now trying to change this document so it is a pleading paper document.
I first selected the entire document with Ctrl + A, then created a Body Text style using Times New Roman and Font 14, and set Before/After = 0 and line spacing as EXACT and used a Font 14. This set the entire document to single spaced.



I then created a textbox, put pleading numbers within (double spaced) and then set those numbers to Times New Roman and Font 14. I aligned the textbox to the top of the header.


I then use Shift + Enter at the End of Each Line and ALL lines lined up correctly with the Pleading Numbers.


Now I decided to make some changes, and again attempted to the Hangiing Indent to offset part of the paragraphs underneath the first line.. HOWEVER the cause the entire paragraph to be offset.


So I'm guessing it has something to do with the Ctrl + Enter I put at the end of each line.


SO, will going with Styles resolve this problem, and HOW DO I CREATE a style that is EXACT and Font 14, in order to get the correct double spacing?

[macropod]

Originally Posted by dw85745

NO styles were used.

On the contrary, the document will have at the very least used Word's 'Normal' Style.

As for the line numbering, it's not clear why you don't use Word's built-in line-numbering function.

As for the rest, without actually seeing the problem document, it can be difficult for anyone to diagnose the issue. Can you attach a document to a post with some representative data (delete anything sensitive)? You do this via the paperclip symbol on the 'Go Advanced' tab at the bottom of this screen.

[dw85745]

Thanks for responding.
I think I got a basic understanding of styles.


1) Just confused on what style to use because there is a laundry list,
and whether it is BEST to have the style based off of "Normal" -OR- pick something else from the list (e.g. Style, Body Text, Body Text Index, etc.)?

2) Can I assign my own name to a Style as it seems to Default to Style + number?

3) MOST IMPORTANTLY

Is there anyway to move my styles to another documents that's already been created
OR
do I need to again create those style in a new document?
OR
Can I make a copy of that document that holds my styles, delete all text, save it under another name, and then copy the Text from the document of concern into that newly created document
and keep my original document formatting AND also have the new styles?

[macropod]

Since Styles are at the heart of how Word works, you'd be well advised to learn how to use them - including how to modify the existing ones and how to make your own. See:
Understanding Styles in Microsoft Word - A Tutorial in the Intermediate Users Guide to Microsoft Word
How to Use Microsoft Word Styles for Document Formatting
Apply styles
Customize or create new styles

Styles can also be copied between documents using the Organiser.

See: Using the Organizer to Manage Styles (Microsoft Word)

Making them take effect in a document that uses an earlier definition of the same Styles is as simple as checking the 'Automatically update document Styles' option, under Developer|Document Template.

[dw85745]

Thanks.
What I don't get is sometimes I can create and modify and other times NOT,
From my limited experience, if the text line already has a style it seems to want to retain that style even though one tries to modify it. If I use a Blank document everything works OK, but for a previously created document Not so much.

[Charles Kenyon]

Originally Posted by dw85745

Thanks.
What I don't get is sometimes I can create and modify and other times NOT,
From my limited experience, if the text line already has a style it seems to want to retain that style even though one tries to modify it. If I use a Blank document everything works OK, but for a previously created document Not so much.

You can modify any paragraph or character style whether it is a built-in or custom style. Word does not really think in terms of text lines. It does think or operate in terms of words, sentences, and paragraphs. (It does not think in terms of pages, either. Word Doesn't Know What a Page Is by Daiya Mitchell, MVP )

Word 97 is old technology. It will work but Word 2003 is substantially better. Neither is supported by Microsoft. The .docx document format introduced with Word 2007 is superior to the .doc document file format.

I strongly recommend that you go through the short tutorials by Shauna Kelly.
Basic concepts of Microsoft Word: An introduction by Shauna Kelly, MVP While that was written for Word 2003, virtually all of it applies.

[dw85745]

Mr Kenyon:


Nice to interface with you again. I hope all goes well Wisconsin way.


I get styles, and see a big advantage of using them.
I can now also create and modify a style.
What has me confused, and I think I'm onto the issue of WHY I'm corrupting them but looking for help with my three problems.
Say I have two styles, Style 1 and Style 2. Style 1 is set to left margin and Style 2 is indent offset from the left.

PROBLEM 1: I set my document to Style 1 using an EXACT 28 pts.
I now need to do a single space quotation, with a double space before and after.
I have NOT created a style for this as this would be Style 3..

What I've been doing is selecting the quote, going to Paragraph formatting, increasing the left and right indents, and changing EXACT to 14 pts.. The style identifier still says it is Style 1. BUT by my action, it APPEARS, I've NOW made Style 1 to be be a single indented quote and Just CORRUPTED Style 1. It APPEAR that Style 1 if Set to something else.
While I can create a quote style, a lot of time quotes need to be different and on the fly formatted.
So is there any solution other than another style?


2) PROBLEM 2. If I have a long paragraph with Style 1, and I want part of that paragraph to be Style 2, I select the words of interest, and then Select Style 2.
A lot of times it will NOT change to the Style 2. I found that if I put a number of spaces before and after the selection, or blank paragraph symbols, then the New Style MOST OF THE TIME will be applied, and then I have to go back and erase the empty spaces or paragraphs. A real pain.


PROBLEM 3. I got pretty efficient at making my own pleading paper. I normally align the text box to the bottom of the header and top of the footer. What is occurring, is the first page looks great, but the second page starts between the pleading number and continues that way for the rest of the document. I've tried several things such as marking the first line as EXACTLY 14 pts instead of 28 pts. It changes but now I have two single line at top. I've also tried Shift + Enter, and also Tools >Options > Compatability > "Dont enter exact", BUT again issues.


David

[spillerbd]

Your document is always set to Style, Normal. That is a paragraph Style using the default Fonts as found in the Design Section and indicated in the Font List as (body).
Style1 may be applied and could continue into the next created paragraph depending on Style1 settings.
There are Style+ styles. This is where you have applied a style and then added direct formatting.
You have Paragraph Styles, Character Styles and Paragraph&Character Styles. Any Style may also be linked to another style to help related styles maintain changes that should cascade through all the related Styles.
If you are wanting to apply a different Character Style to PART of a paragraph, make sure that you are selecting a Character Style.
I would reuse the Style Names from a Style Set and Modify them to fit your use. Save the document but also make the changes apply to the Normal.DOT document.
Remember, you remove all direct formatting from selected text with CTRL+SPACE. Then apply a more appropriate Style.
"I get Styles..." Probably not. That's part in your statements, but also in the complexity of Styles and the vast list of settings and interactivity available between styles. Do I get Styles? Enough for my purposes, but I know I don't think of all the features/settings available in Styles.

[Charles Kenyon]

Please, please, please read the pages I've linked.


Do not use direct formatting. There are a plethora of built-in styles you can use. They can be modified.


There is a built-in style named "Quote" that you can modify for your use.


Paragraph styles cannot be applied to less than a paragraph. If you want a style to apply to part of a paragraph use a Character style. Two built-in character styles are Strong and Emphasis.



The term "paragraph" in Word refers to anything that is followed by a paragraph mark. This includes blank paragraphs.



Basic concepts of Microsoft Word: An introduction by Shauna Kelly, MVP

[dw85745]

spillerbd and Mr. Kenyon.
Thanks for your replies and working with me.


Based on your post you've cleared up a few things.


I'm making an educated guess that Word is a RichTextBox and M$ isusing a metafile or collection to hold Style formatting. Understanding how that metafile or collection is structured in regards to Word terminology and interacting with the GUI, I know would clear things up for me and I'm sure others, Hopefully I can find something.

Mr. Kenyon, I have read the Basic Concepts at the posted link,
You've reinforced spillerbd statements.

[Charles Kenyon]

Look up Word Object Model. Not all of that applies to Word 97, but that is the basic structure.

Word works like a Russian doll with containers boxed inside other containers.
The overall container is the application.
The document resides inside that when open as a part of the documents collection.
Sections reside inside the document. There is always at least one.
The body of a document, Headers and Footers, Footnotes are parts inside a section.
Paragraphs are inside each of those.
Words are inside paragraphs as are characters and also Textboxes.

Styles are containers of formatting that can apply to text. In Word 97 they applied to characters or paragraphs.

By using direct formatting instead of styles you are adding a lot of complexity to a document. Usually, this complexity is not needed; it makes editing difficult.

These concepts are discussed as far as styles are concerned here: Importance of Styles in Word

"Styles are nothing more than a named definition of how text should appear. You can best understand this by comparing your text to water (this is your content). The appearance of the water depends on the attributes of the container in which it is placed. If you place it in a glass it will look one way; if you place it in a pitcher, it looks a different way. The relationship between text and styles is no different; if you change the style that has been applied to text, then the appearance of the text automatically changes." Allen Wyatt Understanding Styles

You will save yourself, and others, untold hours of hair-tearing. For shorter one-use documents, direct formatting is OK; you'll only regret not using styles about one time in six, on the other five out of the six, you'll save a bit of time. If you create document templates with direct formatting, you deserve what will happen to you when someone finds out (and it won't be nice). In my opinion, using direct formatting in document templates intended for use by others rates the words malicious and/or incompetent. If the templates are for your own use, you deserve the loss of days, months, even years from your life that you'll spend fighting with Word and trying to figure out why your documents look so bad.
Trying to use Word without understanding and using styles is like pushing on a string. I resisted learning and using styles for years and now regret every day of those years because although that string was still very hard to push, it kept getting longer and longer, and had some very important projects tied to it! Once you understand styles and the Word concept of organizing things into Chinese boxes everything falls into place and instead of pushing a string, you can push a button that turns on the very powerful text processing machine known as Microsoft Word and it will start doing your work for you instead of running around behind you trying to undo what you thought you just did.

[dw85745]

Mr Kenyon:


Thanks for responding and the link to Words object model.
Had plan to pursue that this weekend depending on time.
Up to this POST, I had a tiger by the tail.
Trying to learn Word, the Courts eFIle system, Civil Procedures and do legal research to respond to three different motions, all with no help.
Two of pleading paper responses lined perfectly with the pledging numbers.
The third was correct on the first page BUT off on subsequent pages.
Did not appear anything was hidden.
Just solved it about an hour ago by creating a section after the first page,
and then adjusting the header to lesser value, played with the textbox a bit by offsetting it from the bottom of the header.

For whatever reason (????) it worked.


Regarding Styles.
I made a big mistake by not learning them up front.
I now have a handle on them and plan to create a number of them.
The biggest issue for me with styles, is previously I just made adhoc documents, as no need required, I thought,, because just a letter or two here and there.
Even with this CASE, the Defendant's attorney seems to use different styles depending on the document, so I've tried to mirror that style. WITHOUT creating styles.
BAD DECISION, which I won't repeat.


Off to bed, since been at this for over 48 hours straight, and everything is filed with the Court, so I hopefully I have a bit of breather.



STAY SAFE.

ThANKS again for your time.

[Charles Kenyon]

Get some rest.
For the most part, you do NOT need to create styles. For the most part, simply modify the formatting of existing Built-In styles. Do not expect that the styles you are seeing in documents from the attorney are well designed.

For headings, there are real benefits to using the built-in heading styles. Why use Microsoft Word’s built-in heading styles? by Shauna Kelly