(Again): why I have this compulsory space?????

Jamal NUMAN · #1 06-23-2011, 02:59 PM

(Again): why I have this compulsory space?????

please, see the attached image that shows my question

explanation:

i need to keep one line after the heading and to move the down paragraph (using back space) to fit in the second line (after the heading), but it didn't work...! it keeps a meaningless empty space...! How can i control (remove) this space???????

regards

Jamal

macropod · #2 06-23-2011, 10:08 PM

Hi Jamal,

Your paragraph on the second page is only three lines long, but that is too high to fit in the space available. Widow/Orphan control requires at least two lines to be on the end of one page and on the beginning of the next. Since you only have three lines, all must go on the same page.

I note that you have an empty paragraph after the heading. This is not good. If you want a space after the heading, then format the heading's paragrapg Style to insert a space of the required size. That way, if your heading has 'Keep with Next' applied (so that you don't have a heading and no text at the bottom of the page), it will always be on the same page as the first two lines of the following paragraph.

Jamal NUMAN · #3 06-24-2011, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macropod

Hi Jamal,

Your paragraph on the second page is only three lines long, but that is too high to fit in the space available. Widow/Orphan control requires at least two lines to be on the end of one page and on the beginning of the next. Since you only have three lines, all must go on the same page.

I note that you have an empty paragraph after the heading. This is not good. If you want a space after the heading, then format the heading's paragrapg Style to insert a space of the required size. That way, if your heading has 'Keep with Next' applied (so that you don't have a heading and no text at the bottom of the page), it will always be on the same page as the first two lines of the following paragraph.

Thank you for the answer Paul.

This behavior is quite weird. because the user will never know how to deal with such thing!.

Removing the empty first line that comes after the heading enables the paragraph to fit in the space.....!!!!!!! thus, in principle, this space can take lines...!!!! the regular behavior of the WORD is to fit any lines of paragraph till the page is full then it moves to the second page. why here WORD needs to fill ALL in the paragraph is the space or otherwise go to the second page????????

how to make the WORD behave as normal in this situation?

what i need, in this case, is to have empty line after the heading and to fit part of the next paragraph in the available space...!

which control that achieve this purpose?

thank you

regards

Jamal

macropod · #4 06-24-2011, 03:46 AM

Hi Jamal,

Quote:

why here WORD needs to fill ALL in the paragraph is the space or otherwise go to the second page?

That is what I explained in post #2 above.

Quote:

how to make the WORD behave as normal in this situation?

This is the normal beahviour.

Quote:

what i need, in this case, is to have empty line after the heading and to fit part of the next paragraph in the available space...!

which control that achieve this purpose?

As I explained in post #2 above, format the paragraph Style for the heading to include the required amount of space. That is how it should be done - not by entering an empty paragraph.

Ulodesk · #5 06-24-2011, 07:10 AM

Hi, Jamal. I remember all too well my early days with a Windows (95) computer and Word. It was all entirely new to me then, and I couldn't even figure out how to type a sentence into a document, let alone deal with spacing issues. I'm sure many of us can sympathize with your frustration. However, as Paul points out, modern applications such as Word incorporate features that allow many formatting choices. Once you become a bit more familiar with the program, these can be adjusted easily and quickly.

However, it helps to know the basics of how the program is set up, and this takes an investment of time, either with someone knowledgeable who also teaches well, Internet or DVD video tutorials, or a book on basics of the relevant program. A few hours of careful study will go a long way. Without that, you're likely to continue stumbling around in the dark and bumping into all sorts of things.

The most useful thing I may ever have learned from a computer-expert friend of mine, is how to respond when a computer or a program does something I don't expect. Instead of allowing anger, I say, "That's interesting." It reminds me that the computer is just a dumb object following mere "logical" commands that someone else programmed, and that with a bit of observant detective work, I may be able figure out how to solve the problem.

Best,
Ulodesk

Jamal NUMAN · #6 06-24-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulodesk

Hi, Jamal. I remember all too well my early days with a Windows (95) computer and Word. It was all entirely new to me then, and I couldn't even figure out how to type a sentence into a document, let alone deal with spacing issues. I'm sure many of us can sympathize with your frustration. However, as Paul points out, modern applications such as Word incorporate features that allow many formatting choices. Once you become a bit more familiar with the program, these can be adjusted easily and quickly.

However, it helps to know the basics of how the program is set up, and this takes an investment of time, either with someone knowledgeable who also teaches well, Internet or DVD video tutorials, or a book on basics of the relevant program. A few hours of careful study will go a long way. Without that, you're likely to continue stumbling around in the dark and bumping into all sorts of things.

The most useful thing I may ever have learned from a computer-expert friend of mine, is how to respond when a computer or a program does something I don't expect. Instead of allowing anger, I say, "That's interesting." It reminds me that the computer is just a dumb object following mere "logical" commands that someone else programmed, and that with a bit of observant detective work, I may be able figure out how to solve the problem.

Best,
Ulodesk

Thank you for the answer Paul and Ulodesk.

For me, i assume that WORD is the most difficult software. the reason is simple: we don't find so many people who are professional in it. all are dealing with it in shallow way!!!!

what surprises me, that the behavior of Word is quite wierd in most of the cases, I'm a heavy user for other two huge software (AutoCAD and ArcGIS), but i never lost the control on their settings, formats and behavior but in Word i do.

My background, civil engineering, makes me a bit aware of space behavior. i got bothered when i don't know how to control such issues.

for example, I'm attaching now another "space issue", and i couldn't know why i have this space...! it comes after a paragraph which has ZERO pace after... but still, the space is there!!!!

i don't forget to mention the colossal efforts of Paul in responding to our problems.

regards

Jamal

macropod · #7 06-24-2011, 06:47 PM

Hi Jamal,

I don't see anything strange about the layout in the image you posted. The space after the end of the paragraph is probably being partly controlled by the 'before' space setting of the paragraph that follows.

As a civil engineer, I doubt that you became proficient using AutoCAD and ArcGIS without some training - whether formal or informal (the latter including regular use). The same applies to Word: If you want to use it proficiently, you need to take the time to learn how to do so. The reason you don't find many people who are proficient in using Word is that most organisations don't value it. Managers think that, if you can use a keyboard and mouse, you can use Word. Sure, that is true for basic typing, but not for professional document development. I say this as someone who never received any formal training for Word (in most respects, I'm still a two-finger typist!).

Jamal NUMAN · #8 06-25-2011, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macropod

Hi Jamal,

I don't see anything strange about the layout in the image you posted. The space after the end of the paragraph is probably being partly controlled by the 'before' space setting of the paragraph that follows.

As a civil engineer, I doubt that you became proficient using AutoCAD and ArcGIS without some training - whether formal or informal (the latter including regular use). The same applies to Word: If you want to use it proficiently, you need to take the time to learn how to do so. The reason you don't find many people who are proficient in using Word is that most organisations don't value it. Managers think that, if you can use a keyboard and mouse, you can use Word. Sure, that is true for basic typing, but not for professional document development. I say this as someone who never received any formal training for Word (in most respects, I'm still a two-finger typist!).

Hi Paul,

I entirely agree with what you have mentioned, unfortunately, the majority think that Word is just to type few words and that's it. for me i consider Word to be "easy, but rather difficult" and is quite confusing!!! Word requires skills the same amount that other software do. all how are using it in shallow way will never taste how deep it is. The more i know and learn new functions and features in Word environment, the more i realize that i don't know!!!!!

For the time being, I'm trying to edit my dissertation (for MSc degree) by myself!!! it is an actual experience to find out the capabilities of Word and how can i control all the elements inside so that the output can be similar with other professional and high quality edited periodicals. My dissertation doesn't exceed 12,000 words but I'm writing as well some posts in Word Forum to get some help!!!!

by the way, I'm again stuck with the issue of spacing!!! please, see the attached image.

why word behave in such way? the space between the number (1.9) and the word that follows is not the same as the space after the number (1.10) and the word that follows!!!!!!

how to make them with same space regardless whether the number is one digit or two digits!!!!

regards

Jamal

AlteDäne · #9 06-25-2011, 09:37 AM

Hi Jamal,
Word is using numbered paragraphs for these headings and that works with tabs. Normally a good idea if you use numbered lists to have the text aligned. Here, you have a block of text in between and the alignment is not so obvious, maybe not even an advantage.
You could increase the gap (indentation, special) a little between the numbers and the heading text so that 1.10 looks better (changing the style of the heading) - or you could of course control the numbers yourself!
regards

Jamal NUMAN · #10 06-25-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlteDäne

Hi Jamal,
Word is using numbered paragraphs for these headings and that works with tabs. Normally a good idea if you use numbered lists to have the text aligned. Here, you have a block of text in between and the alignment is not so obvious, maybe not even an advantage.
You could increase the gap (indentation, special) a little between the numbers and the heading text so that 1.10 looks better (changing the style of the heading) - or you could of course control the numbers yourself!
regards

Thank you for the answer AlteDane,

1. this numbering comes from heading2 as shwon in the attachment

2. the gap should represent the gap between the heading number and heading text...!!! but it doesn't sound like this...!!!! since the gab between the 1.9 and text is not the same as the gap between the 1.10 and text

3. if i increase the distance in the heading 2 style, then the gap will increase in all headings which make the gap between 1.9 and text is a bit much more than i need...!!!!

my question:
how to make the gap between the number and the text the same in case of 1.9 and 1.10????

regards

Jamal

AlteDäne · #11 06-25-2011, 03:46 PM

Hi again,
I was thinking of a compromise: Too much for 1.9, too little for 1.10.
But you may derive a new style, say heading2a, based on heading2. Let heading2a have a larger hanging value and use heading2a for 1.10 and the following headings.
regards

Jamal NUMAN · #12 06-25-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlteDäne

Hi again,
I was thinking of a compromise: Too much for 1.9, too little for 1.10.
But you may derive a new style, say heading2a, based on heading2. Let heading2a have a larger hanging value and use heading2a for 1.10 and the following headings.
regards

thank you for your prompt answers AlteDäne,

I'm wondering why Word makes our life harder!!!!!! I'm really totally confused of the "space behavior" of Word...! It's uncontrollable!!!! more headings for the same "level" just to control the space!!!!!! weird!!!!

I'm attaching again an unjustified empty space knowing that the former and the later paragraphs have "0" space before and after!!!!!!

How can you explain this?

regards

Jamal

AlteDäne · #13 06-25-2011, 04:46 PM

I don't see the problem here. You have ticked orphan control so the first line in the paragraph "Over and above ..." cannot be the last line on the previous page. But you seem to have a blank line at the end of the previous page.

Jamal NUMAN · #14 06-25-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlteDäne

I don't see the problem here. You have ticked orphan control so the first line in the paragraph "Over and above ..." cannot be the last line on the previous page. But you seem to have a blank line at the end of the previous page.

You are right. thank you

appreciated

Jamal

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