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Old 03-08-2023, 02:01 PM
skydivetom skydivetom is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2019
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Default "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references

Hi:



A long time ago, I created a template for a "Table of Contents" (TOC). At the time being, that template worked fine.

Forwarding to present day, I would utilize the existing TOC template but realized that I need to make some formatting changes as to how the TOC itself as well as chapter references are displayed.

Attached are the following two (2) documents:
1. "TOC Template -- Latest Version v02.docx"
2. "Issues with TOC.docx"


In the 2nd document, I list the four (4) issues for which I'd like to get some help. No need to spell them out here as the details (incl. screenshots) are included in that helper document.

I'd greatly appreciate if someone could assist me fixing some/all of these 4 issues.

Thousand thanks in advance,
Tom
Attached Files
File Type: zip TOC Template -- Latest Version v02.zip (486.2 KB, 1 views)
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  #2  
Old 03-09-2023, 02:46 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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I've taken a preliminary look.

I know that it may seem redundant, but questions here are answered by volunteers. Please do not make them download and review a document to see if the questions are ones they can help with. Please edit your original post to at least give more of an idea of what the nature of the problems is.

I've attached your original "template" with some changes. Please take a look at it.

In Word jargon, this is NOT a template, but a document. The distinction is important.
Using the term "template" will lead you to very different information online and in Microsoft's help system. (Yes, it is a template in the ordinary English-language sense.) Templates in Microsoft Word

More jargon: You use the term "header" when you mean "heading."
What is the difference between headings and headers?

I replaced the Cover Page with one of the stock pages from the Cover Pages Gallery. You can reformat it as you wish. The thing is, it ends up as Page 0.

The first section's headers have been set to have a Different First Page, with page numbering starting in the regular or primary header. Header/Footer Settings Recap

I restarted page numbering at 1 in the second section using the Format Page Numbers dialog.

Issue 2 - Labels not wanted in List of Figures as in the List of Tables
I cannot figure out how you accomplished this in the List of Tables.
While I can think of ways these could be removed it is not simple and will make editing and maintenance of your documents a chore.
These are TOC fields with switches. Each caption will need to be massaged to get this result. Here is my writing on these: Insert a Table of Figures. See also: TOC Switches by Suzanne Barnhill, MVP

Your List of Tables field that includes the Table numbers but not the label is:
{ TOC \h \z \t "Table,1" \c "Table" }

I tried using the identical construction for the List of Figures but the labels still appear.


I note that you are using the List Paragraph style for the headings on your List of Figures and List of Tables. This is a very strained usage. Consider instead using the TOC Heading Style. Perhaps a Custom TOF Heading Style based on the built-in TOC Heading Style but with an Outline level of 1 applied.
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File Type: docx TOC Template -- Latest Version v03.docx (370.6 KB, 5 views)
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  #3  
Old 03-09-2023, 02:45 PM
skydivetom skydivetom is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2019
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Charles:

Thank you for your assistance in this post. I truly appreciate your feedback, advice, and help to modify my TOC document (not template).

First, please allow me say that this was my first time using this forum. Again, I appreciate the guidance (e.g., provide more details in the actual post vs. incl. details in attachments). Hence, I tried to edit the original post a moment ago. Unfortunately, a dialogue box popped up indicating that "1. The administrator has specified that you can only edit messages for 1440 minutes after you have posted."

I will definitely keep it in mind for any future post.

Allow me to summarize my responses in bullet format:
a. Thanks for making the many changes in the latest TOC document.
b. Appreciate the feedback on some of the jargon (headers vs. heading, etc.).
c. WRT to removing the words "Figure" and "Table" from the "List of Figures" and "List of Tables", I did this manually in the 'list of issues' document. That is, I merely backspaced those words for illustration purposes.
d. Based on c., updating the entire TOC (figures/tables) will, naturally, return it to the original state and included those words.
e. I am a bit lost based on your last note/sentence. I'm not entirely certain how to fix it.

All that said, I'm still curious about two (2) items).
1. For the individual chapter headings, the text in the second line (e.g., "Introduction" and "Preview") are still not centered. I know the cause (i.e., the hidden numeric values), but I'm not sure how to fix it.
2. And, most importantly, I noticed that another issue has popped up (e.g., inserting new figure/table caption). See attached JPG for illustration purposes.

Based on #2., here's my current process:
- In the event I need to insert a figure in the middle of the document, I simply copy/paste an existing figure (or table) *caption* from a previous page.
- I then insert the new figure followed by updating the caption (incl. updating the figure #).
- Having inserted a new figure (or table for that matter) should result in changing any in subsequent figure/table caption to change from "n" to "n+1".
- However, once I go to the, e.g., "List of Figures" and then "update the entire figures" list, I see that -- in this example -- the numbering is still {1, 2, 2, 3} vs. {1, 2, 3, 4}.

My final question: What is missing in the document (TOC or caption code) that does NOT automatically update all n subsequent figures/tables?

Many thanks in advance for any additional help you might be willing to provide.

Cheers,
Tom
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  #4  
Old 03-09-2023, 04:22 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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Here is a temporary link to your document with some more changes including not using the List Paragraph style for a heading.
Dropbox - TOC Template -- Latest Version v03.docx - Simplify your life

The Table of Contents, the List of Figures, and the List of Tables are all fields. So are the numbers in the Captions.See my article Dealing with Fields in Microsoft Word which is likely more than you want to know about the subject but just scratches the surface. There are a number of much more in-depth tutorials pinned to this forum.

Fields do not update automatically, quite. A Print Preview will update many fields but not all. There is a link in my article to an explanation of which fields get updated, when. Probably the most sensitive ones I know of are the Pagination Fields which do seem to update immediately. However, the page numbers in a TOC do not update automatically. For that matter, a Table of Contents does not care whether or not there is a page number on the page.

When I have fields in my document (like the numbering in the Captions) that also appears in a Table of Contents / Figures / Tables, I sometimes select all the text in the document and press the F9 key to update fields. With a TOC/TOF, a dialog will usually pop up asking if I just want to update the page numbers. I will tell Word page numbers only on this pass.

Then I will press F9 again, and this time tell Word to update the entire table. If there is any chance that updating my Table of Contents/etc changed pagination of the rest of the document, I will press it a third time, this time again saying page numbers only.


No wonder I couldn't reproduce your result with the List of Tables.


I will take another look at your off-center headings.
The following may help: Number Alignment by Suzanne Barnhill, MVP.
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Old 03-09-2023, 06:23 PM
skydivetom skydivetom is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2019
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Charles:

Thank you for the continued assistance. I very much appreciate your help in this forum.

Just to clarify... wrt to the three different "LIST OF FIGURES", ...
- ... what's the difference between them in layman's terms and/or practical terms?
- ... how can I tell the difference? That is, which one is which?
- That is, purely looking at each three outputs, they *appear* to be identical. What am I missing?

WRT the updating the figures/tables, your recommendation to use "Print Preview" solved the underlying issue for both (List of Figures and List of Tables). That's HUGE!!! Thank you for this recommendation!!

Finally, once I got the aligned for the 2nd chapter line taken care of, I'll be set. I'll keep monitoring this post. Also, as part of further educating myself on the topic, I'll review the links ot the articles. Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,
Tom
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  #6  
Old 03-10-2023, 03:25 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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You have things set up for numbering and it is a mess. A huge mess. The technical term for this is spaghetti numbering.


You have multiple multilevel lists, you only need one.


If you use automatic paragraph numbering or bullets read Shauna Kelly's directions on numbering and bullets. Start with How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in Word 2007 and Word 2010. For large documents you must follow these directions or you will lose your hair!
(Mac version: Outline Numbering in Word for macOS - Best Practices - Brandwares)

This may seem a bit convoluted at first, but it really is not. Just follow the steps. Shauna Kelly's instructions use the built-in heading styles, but you can use any existing paragraph styles including your custom styles. There are, however advantages to using the built-in heading styles when you create a Table of Contents. Here are some more advantages: Why Use Word's Built-In Heading Styles? by Shauna Kelly Note, you can modify these built-in styles to look exactly the way you want.


Videos on this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He_ob8ydc9E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbyTcWo52G4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GevZOS-nCuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niD6VXPvAyU




The basic idea is that the numbering is set using the Define MultiLevel List dialog with each numbering level being attached to an existing paragraph style. Once you have this set up, you should not use the buttons for numbering in the Ribbon but rather apply the appropriate style for that level.

You can save a document with this as a template for future documents if you want so you will not need to do this every time.

If you are going to use the built-in list styles, start with the ones that say Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Do any modification to Indents or the appearance of the numbering in the Define New MultiLevel List Dialog.


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Old 03-10-2023, 04:45 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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Note, I modified my previous posts. Look at them in the forum.

Here is more on numbering and styles. Look at both.
Temporary link to latest version of template with new multilevel list and styles.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8pkn47zf2b...0v04.docx?dl=0


Temporary link to a template that holds customized styles and numbering.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5mmv8itnzi...List.dotx?dl=0


Instructions:
  1. This involves creating and applying a [Quick] Style Set, so look at [Quick] Style Sets and Word Themes in Microsoft Word before going further.
  2. Open the template I linked or create a new document based on it.
  3. Modify Heading Styles 1 - 9 to look the way you want. Do not mess with the numbering! Focus on Center/Don't Center, etc.
  4. Modify the TOC Heading Style to look the way you want.
  5. Save a custom [quick] style set based on that document and remember the name. 00 deleteme 2.png
  6. Open the version 4 document and apply your custom [quick] style set.
  7. Update your Table of Contents to see how it looks.
  8. Open your real document and try doing the same.
  9. Go back to the version 4 and see what styles are applied where.
  10. Apply the same styles in your own document.
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Old 03-10-2023, 04:53 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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Note, when you save your custom [quick] style set, note that it has the TOC 1 style in it, which is not usual. That is because that style is set for all caps. Otherwise you can end up with anomalous lower case in your TOC.

The version 4 also has the TOF Heading style which is not in the style set. You may have to recreate that one in your own document or copy it from the version 4 using the Organizer. You could also, in your version 4 document once you have applied the style set, modify the TOF Heading style to be in the [Quick] Styles Gallery in that document and then recreate the quick style set and apply to your own document.
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Old 03-11-2023, 04:15 AM
skydivetom skydivetom is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2019
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Charles -- I appreciate the feedback.

I will admit, the sheer volume of information, videos, references, figures, etc. etc. that you provided is a bit overwhelming though. Also, as you have pointed out, the document is a "mess"... I heard you loud and clear.

That said, allow me to stay focused and bring it back to the original problem. In the document posted on Dropbox (03-09-2023, 03:22 PM), you included several "List of Figures" tables/TOCs. Which one of these 3 is the correct one (1st, 2nd, 3rd)? In other words, which ones are the "messy" List of Figures/Tables that should be deleted?

Thanks,
Tom

Last edited by skydivetom; 03-11-2023 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 03-11-2023, 10:57 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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The three are essentially identical. I was experimenting.


Please, consider using the [Quick] Style Set to fix your numbering.
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Old 03-11-2023, 03:18 PM
skydivetom skydivetom is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2019
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Thank you... I appreciate it.

I'll continue to review options for options that will align the 2nd lines (chapter headings).

Again, I appreciate your help in this forum.

Cheers,
Tom
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Old 03-11-2023, 08:34 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Windows 11 "Tables of Content" -- Need assistance with tweaking TOC and references Office 2021
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If you follow the steps with the style sets it will cure this.


The problem is that you have that paragraph in a numbered list with the number (not the heading) set to be centered in the MultiLevel List dialog.
This is especially perplexing because the paragraphs displaying the problem do not have any numbers, but they are in a style attached to that numbering level.
Fixing that directly through the Define New MultiLevel List dialog was more of a chore than I chose to attempt.
As convoluted as it is, assigning a new style set with the numbering is simpler.
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