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Old 08-31-2021, 10:08 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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Cool Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab

Hello all!



Been a long time since I was stumped by an issue in Word, but I think I've found a pretty significant glitch! FYI: I was an MS Office trainer in a past life, so I usually know what I'm doing, or can at least figure most stuff out. This one is a mystery - at least to me!

I've created new styles and an outline numbering scheme that uses them. The scheme includes text prior to (left of)the number. The paragraph style has a RIGHT tab set at 7.5 inches - the right hand margin setting. This should cause text that has been typed in to populate from the tab stop POINT (7.5) moving to the LEFT in the document. I've done this oodles of times with number formats that do NOT include text.

Today I found that the "Right" tab functions as a standard "Left" tab under these circumstances.

If you want to see it for yourself, create a new document and apply the "Article" outline numbering scheme associated with the Heading Styles. - both Level 1 and Level 2 paragraphs, using Heading 1 and Heading 2 styles consecutively, have text prior to the number in the "Enter formatting for number" field in the "Format New Multilevel list" dialog box. See file attachment titled "Locate Number Scheme".

Once you have applied the Outline Numbering, modify the Heading 1 style in the document to have a right tab at the right hand margin - again, I used 7.5, as my document has .5" margins.

After you have updated the style, apply it to the current paragraph in the document - you should see the text display prior to the number 1, a tab character, and your cursor should be at the tab position. The expectation is that when you begin to type, the text will flow to the left from the insertion point, extending "backward" toward the left margin.

NOPE! When you begin typing, the text builds toward the RIGHT MARGIN, and ultimately word-wraps to the next line, underneath the text/number.

Create another paragraph using the Heading 2 style, and modify the style to have a right tab stop. Same problem!

BUT - when you try the same thing with Heading 3, it works just fine. Heading 3 does not have any "words" prior to the number, although it does have a left paren.

Screenshot titled "Right Tab Misfire" shows my sample document for the exercise above - paragraphs demonstrate the issue.

Not sure what additional formatting attributes are included in the Outline Numbering overlay to the Heading styles for this scheme, but I sure would like to know what to turn off if I can!


Thoughts and ideas?
Attached Images
File Type: png Locate Number Scheme.png (41.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg Right Tab Misfire.jpg (81.8 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by hbhilton; 08-31-2021 at 10:16 AM. Reason: Fix typos and hanging sentence.
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  #2  
Old 08-31-2021, 12:03 PM
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Stefan Blom Stefan Blom is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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To define the distance between "Article #" and the paragraph text that follows, make use of the "Add tab stop at" setting in the Multilevel List dialog box.
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Old 08-31-2021, 12:55 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is online now Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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With your wide images, it is very difficult for me to read your post.
How to attach a screenshot or file in this forum.


See How to create numbered headings or outline numbering in Ribbon Versions of Word by Shauna Kelly
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:47 PM
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Yes, it appears that the text 'immediately' following the autonumber must flow to the right of the tab stop.

I don't agree that Heading 3 is demonstrating different behaviour. It has a manually inserted tab at the start of the paragraph and it most likely has a hanging indent that exceeds the length of the autonumber.

If you configured your Heading 1 and Heading 2 so the hanging indent is larger than the space required by the autonumber AND added a tab at the start of the paragraph I think you see the same behaviour as Heading 3. You can avoid the poor optics of the double tab by configuring the outline list levels to Follow number with a space instead of a tab. You still need to start your headings with a tab but at least there is only one and not two.

To me, the next problem occurs when the heading wraps to the next line. Having it start under the autonumber is a problem. To solve that, I would right align the style and set your RIGHT tab to align with the Right paragraph indent.
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  #5  
Old 09-01-2021, 07:22 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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Yes, I fiddled around with the settings and came up with the the space after option, then used CTRL*TAB to get to the Right tab set at 6.5. Using that option (not ideal!) the Right tab works correctly.

This is REALLY awkward, though, for novice and even intermediate users (I'm doing a template) because typing "Tab" instead of text, even after the space, applies the next style in the Outline Numbering scheme - in this case Heading 2. Most user's won't know to use the CTRL+TAB in this instance, so there will be SUPPORT calls over this.

Seems to me that the using the "Tab After" setting, and creating the only tab at 6.5 should be enough for WORD to observe the intent:

Numbers here.......[tab] Text here, with end of text flush right

How do I request that this be looked at as an enhancement request?
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Old 09-01-2021, 07:53 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Blom View Post
To define the distance between "Article #" and the paragraph text that follows, make use of the "Add tab stop at" setting in the Multilevel List dialog box.

Sorry, but this method won't work.

When a style is associated with an outline level in an Outline Numbering Scheme, this method only updates the associated style with a LEFT tab stop. If you want a RIGHT tab stop, you have to modify the style.

When a style is NOT associated with an outline level, this method will create a tab stop (using direct formatting) in the paragraph. Even if one was able to create a RIGHT tab this way, removing a style from one level in a numbering scheme is inadvisable... the only way to apply that numbering (it's not associated with a style, remember) is to apply the PRIOR style, then use the tab to navigate to the next numbering setting in the scheme. You may get the right number (temporarily) but the paragraph has the wrong style, and will be adversely affected if that style is modified. In fact, if the style is reapplied, the prior level numbering is also reapplied.

oops!

That would totally mess up the document, so much so that I'm not sure why Word even lets you save the Outline scheme with a style missing on a Level in the middle of the sequence. I think I've asked for that enhancement a bunch of times! HAHAHAH!
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Old 09-01-2021, 07:59 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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Wow!

Yeah, it's a pain, but smaller pics that can't be read will cause the same issue. Ya zoom in to read, you gotta lateral scroll.

Just wait until you need bifocals, like I do! You're constantly zooming in and lateral scrolling... on everything!!! Better start learning to deal pretty quick, or get yourself an oversized monitor! But that won't help you on your laptop!
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Old 09-01-2021, 08:11 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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One more note of interest, you could apply the LOWER level style, then use SHIFT+TAB to apply the previous number in the scheme, without changing the style.

I only add that because I previously said "the only way to apply the number" is to apply the prior level style. Not accurate.
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Old 09-01-2021, 08:43 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
...next problem occurs when the heading wraps to the next line.
LOL - it wouldn't text wrap if it worked like a right tab! This method is designed to be used as a banner at the top of a page. Here's a screen shot (I adjusted the size for our latter scrolling-adverse friend!)
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File Type: png Episodes.png (6.3 KB, 16 views)
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Old 09-01-2021, 10:31 AM
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As I wrote, the Multilevel List dialog box MUST be used to define the position of the text following the list symbol. This applies to the heading in the main body of the document.

The table of contents must be dealt with separately, as you noted. You need to modify the tab stops in the corresponding TOC styles (TOC 1 for level 1, TOC for level 2, etc.). More specifically, you'll need one tab stop for the tab character that comes from the list number and an additional tab stop to position the page number on the right margin.
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Old 09-01-2021, 11:57 AM
hbhilton hbhilton is offline Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Windows 10 Outline Numbering scheme with TEXT before the numbers causes the right tab to function as a left tab Office 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan Blom View Post
As I wrote, the Multilevel List dialog box MUST be used to define the position of the text following the list symbol.

I'm sorry, but I don't see this as an accurate statement. Try this: In a new document, update the Heading 1 style to have a LEFT, leader tab at 2.5. Then apply the legal numbering scheme (Article/Section) - you will see your insertion point at the 2.5 setting with the leader in front of it. Since there is no option in the "Multilevel List" dialog box for leader tabs, you wouldn't even be able to accomplish this using that dialog. And we use this all the time.

So, clearly the setting can be made in the style and the result is the same.

However, if there are technical reasons why this approach causes a problem, then I'd appreciate an explanation as opposed to a declaration.

I didn't mention anything about a TOC, and don't have any issues with that.
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Old 09-01-2021, 04:33 PM
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I apparently misunderstood your reference to tab leaders and assumed that a table of contents was involved. :-(

Thanks for the clarification.

You can't change the typ of tab inserted by a list level, so setting "Follow number with" to "Space" would probably be a good start (see a reply by Guessed/Andrew).

After having defined a tab leader, you'd have to manually insert a tab character in the heading.
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