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Old 05-17-2022, 08:28 AM
JimYuill JimYuill is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2021
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Default using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations

A publisher provided a Word template for me to use in writing a book. However, I also needed to use some of my existing Word customizations (esp macros), which were specified in Normal.dotm.

I'm new to templates, and it was non-trivial figuring-out how to use the provided-template and my Word customizations.
So, I wrote-up the solution on my web-site, for others who encounter this problem. The article can be freely copied under the CreativeCommons license.

MS Word templates: how to use someone else's template

Being new to templates, there are probably ways to improve upon my solution here.
Any feedback is much appreciated.



Coincidentally, the primary sources I used were Charles Kenyon's articles on templates, which are cited.
I just noticed he's the moderator for this forum. (Greetings Charles)
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Old 05-17-2022, 10:54 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2019
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You do not substitute the template for your Normal.dotm. [EVER]

Double-click on the supplied template. Or, use File > New and pick the template if it is properly stored. This should create a new document based on the supplied template.

All of your macros stored in your Normal Template will still be available. Styles will not. Keyboard shortcuts will. Building Blocks including AutoText will be available. Formatted AutoCorrect will be available.
Thank you for the homage. I apologize if my article is unclear.
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Old 05-17-2022, 11:08 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2019
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To clarify, to use someone else's template, simply use it. You do not need to copy anything from your normal template into that template. The only thing that will not be available in your document based on someone else's template is conflicting styles in the normal template. You can import them later if you want, individually or en masse. Macros to Copy Styles from the Normal Template
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Old 05-19-2022, 11:25 AM
JimYuill JimYuill is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2021
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Default clarification of Normal.dotm use

Charles,

Thanks much for your reply, and for reviewing the how-to info I posted.

You mentioned, "You do not substitute the template for your Normal.dotm. [EVER]"

The solution I posted doesn't involve that substitution. The solution is to replace my customized Normal.dotm with Word's default Normal.dotm. The customizations I had in Normal.dotm are moved to two new templates.

I got that approach from an article on Word templates, which recommends doing that:
10 Things: How to use Word templates effectively | TechRepublic

Also, this article recommends a similar approach:
What do Templates and Add-ins store?

That approach is different than the one you recommended:
"To clarify, to use someone else's template, simply use it. You do not need to copy anything from your normal template into that template."

It seems both approaches have their own advantages and disadvantages?

Thanks again,
Jim
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Old 05-19-2022, 11:53 AM
JimYuill JimYuill is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2021
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Question Normal.dotm used as a global template

Charles,

In my how-to document, I was mistaken in saying Normal.dotm styles are always available. THANK YOU for correcting me on that:

> "All of your macros stored in your Normal Template will still be available. Styles will not..."

If a new document is created and a template chosen (not Normal.dotm), I mistakenly thought the styles in Normal.dotm would be available.
I now understand that, in this case, Normal.dotm is used as a global template, so the styles in Normal.dotm aren't available.

FYI, Your web-page on templates seems to indicate that the styles in Normal.dotm are always available. I copied that text below. Though, I may be misreading your web-page. Any clarification is appreciated.

Thanks again, your web-page on templates has been very helpful,
Jim

-----

From your web-page on templates:

SECTION: Normal.dotm - the pan-global template - the granddaddy of all document templates

Normal.dotm ... is a special global document template ... Also unlike other global templates, it shares styles with all open documents...


SECTION: The hierarchy of templates...

All styles in Normal.dotm / Normal.dot are available to all documents.
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Old 05-19-2022, 02:26 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2019
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Sorry for the confusion.

If they do not conflict with the styles that are in the current document, the styles in the normal template are available. Styles with the same name in the document will be used, not the ones in the normal template.

With other global templates, absent some other method of transfer, the styles in other global templates are simply non-existent for open documents and other templates. See A Global StyleSheet in Microsoft Word?

Giving context to the information on the hierarchy of templates:

First, look in the document.
Any styles in the document will be used in preference to others if they have the same name.
Next, check the attached template. Any macros or styles in the attached template will take priority over any except those of the same name in the document.
Any styles changed in the template after the document was created will be available as changed to the document by updating styles. Absent such updating they will not be available.

Then check the Normal template (Normal.dotm or Normal.dot).
All styles in Normal.dotm / Normal.dot are available to all documents. Those styles already in the document will not take on the attributes of styles in Normal.dot unless you update them. (Normal.dot has many more styles than are ever used in one document.)
EDIT: SEE NEXT POST FOR CORRECTIONS

Last edited by Charles Kenyon; 05-20-2022 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 05-19-2022, 03:15 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2019
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After I posted that, I reviewed my statements there and modified them. I was mistaken in that the normal template acts like other templates for styles.
  1. A document gets the styles from its template when created, whether that template is the normal template or another template. What is the relationship between a Microsoft Word document and its template?
  2. Styles in the normal template are not available to documents unless they were created from that template, and then, only the styles that were in the template when the document was created. Generally speaking all templates, at some point, started based on a normal template and contain all those styles that are seldom used.
  3. Changing the normal template does not change or update the styles available in the document unless something else happens to update those styles. (i.e. Macros to Copy Styles from the Normal Template)
  4. Attaching any template (or re-attaching a template) to a document with the box checked to update styles both updates existing styles in the document to match the template and imports any new styles that were created after the document was created. It does not delete styles in the document that are not in the template.

Last edited by Charles Kenyon; 05-20-2022 at 07:49 AM.
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2022, 06:44 AM
JimYuill JimYuill is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2021
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Default my experiements

Charles,
Thanks. FYI, I did some experiments, and they were consistent with your last post.

Word's use of templates is very complicated, and Microsoft doesn't seem to document the complexities. At least, I haven't seen any Microsoft documentation, except for very simple use-cases.

This is not uncommon though for Microsoft's software. They seem to rely on users figuring-out the details for how things work, and writing articles and forum-posts to explain these details.

Word software-developers at Microsoft must have to keep all of this knowledge in their head, as they also have to deal with this lack of documentation. In my experience, most programmers hate writing prose, including documentation. It's no wonder then that Word is buggy.

Jim
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Old 05-20-2022, 07:46 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2019
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With some pride, I can say that, so far as I know, my article is the best documentation there is on Word templates. About 15 or 20 years ago it was copied onto the Microsoft website with my permission, but has not been updated there since.

There is documentation at Microsoft that is not shared with the general public. I believe their MVP volunteers get access to more than the general public, but not to everything.

My article could stand a good rewrite, I know. I am a lawyer, not a coder nor a technical writer. I welcome chances to make it better, though.

The people who design and code Word do not, as far as I know, actually use it. It is a hodgepodge of code and very creaky. The left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. The multiple versions for different platforms adds to the confusion almost exponentially. As far as I can tell, Sharepoint and Word's online and mobile versions do not use templates the way that the desktop versions do. They treat them like documents.
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Old 05-20-2022, 10:17 AM
JimYuill JimYuill is offline using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Windows 10 using someone else's template and my existing Word customizations Office 2021
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Default consistent with my experience

Charles,

In researching templates for my how-to article, I looked at a bunch of web-pages on templates. Yours were the most useful. My article's appendix has links to the web-pages I found helpful.

Your description of Word's programmers is consistent with my experience in software development. Software developers typically don't have a lot of experience using the program they develop, mainly because they are busy programming.

I suspect Microsoft has one Word programmer who is an expert at templates (maybe a few experts). He probably has a super high IQ (super programmer), at the level where most people never know anyone that smart. He would know all about the code that processes templates, and all about how templates work in versions of Word going back to the 1990s.

Maintaining downward compatibility like that is very difficult, e.g., if the next version of Word breaks templates from Word 2003, there will be an international uproar.

Word's code for processing templates probably goes back 20+ years and was developed by a bunch of Microsoft programmers over the years, many of whom no longer work on Word or no longer work at Microsoft. (So, you can't ask them about the programs they wrote, e.g., how and why it does particular quirky things.)

Programmers currently working on Word have to reverse engineer that old code (old programs) when they add new features to Word. Not breaking old code would be an on-going and big challenge, and it would make adding new features increasingly difficult over the years.

Being a Word programmer would be a very hard job, and very hard to do well, e.g., be productive and not have a lot of bugs. But, it probably pays great (maybe $180+K for the template expert?)
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