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Old 09-15-2020, 06:16 PM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Question Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully


Guys, please, consult me a bit. I have a huge text. How can I make Word to fill all the available lines on each page filly, not to break paragraphs two lines before the end of the pages, do not leave blank lines (if distance from last printed line to footnote or page number differs from page to page it looks weird sometimes). I look into paragraph formatting and tried to switch "widows" control off and played with other settings. Behavior changed, but, again, Word does not fill the page fully, sometimes it leaves one or even two empty lines. I need just full coverage without any "intellectual" paragraph breaking. How can I achieve this?
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Old 09-15-2020, 06:55 PM
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These settings all exist for a reason. Turning them off is rarely a good idea.

You've worked out already that the widows and orphans setting can turned off. Did you do this to the entire document or just some paragraphs in the document? Do you have paragraph spacing between paragraphs?

Also, typically Headings have "Keep with Next" turned on. You will need to ensure that setting is also turned off for all paragraphs (not just headings).

You would also need to avoid page, column and section breaks.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:18 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 10 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2019
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See Improving the Bottom Line by Suzanne Barnhill, MVP.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:08 PM
shansid shansid is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 10 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2013
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Select all the text, go to Home tab and then select "No Spacing" option.
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Old 09-17-2020, 05:09 AM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Kenyon View Post

Wonderful link! I followed the "procrustian way" from this article (switched widows/orphans control off) and may be the situation become a bit better, but not totally. Some pages (and it is really around 40-50%) has one line less than others.


Sometimes I cannot even understand why pagination made like this when I have huge paragraph divided around 1:1. There will be no issue if Word will fill one extra line, but it does not.


Is there the way just to switch this "smart" pagination off after all? I just need to make a book-like look (yes, I know about InDesign etc.) so this is a problem for me.
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Old 09-22-2020, 11:24 AM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Guys, for real, I'm very surprised with Word 2013 behaviour. Even if I switched all the checkboxes (widow control, together with next etc.) on the corresponding paragraph formatting tab OFF, it does not make pagination uniformly. I still have +-1 line difference from page to page. It seems to me that there is some randomness in it, because when I just reopen document, pagination is fluctuating (I have huge document, sometimes I get 672 pages, sometimes - 673). Is it possible to switch if off after all? Just to make it fulling the page without "thinking".
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Old 09-22-2020, 03:15 PM
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Word repaginates using the printer metrics of the currently selected printer. If you open the print dialog and change printers then it has to start all over again and this may change the page count as you change printer drivers. There is very little you can do to stop that. You might get some mileage in fiddling with the margin settings so the variability always falls within a 'line height' instead of toggling between x and x+1 lines.

Are there variations in fonts in your document? For instance, if you have bullets in your document, they are likely to be a different typeface and could be making tiny spacing changes that you aren't noticing.

If you've done everything else to control this with paragraph spacing, paragraph pagination settings and line heights then the last thing you can do to 'fake it' is to change the section page setup to vertically justify the page content. This will make tiny adjustments to the line heights to always align the top and bottom of the page. If there are lots of lines on every page, these adjustments are not likely to be noticed.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:33 AM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
Are there variations in fonts in your document? For instance, if you have bullets in your document, they are likely to be a different typeface and could be making tiny spacing changes that you aren't noticing.

No, the document is very simple, just two fonts - for text and for headings. No bullets, no tables, no pictures.


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the last thing you can do to 'fake it' is to change the section page setup to vertically justify the page content.

Yeah, I have already checked this option, but I wanted to do this "honestly". And I still cannot believe that this is not possible at all, because this makes Word completely unusable for real-life book make-up. We may say that this is not the speciality of this program, but giving such option for the user definitely would be beneficial.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:23 AM
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I think perhaps you are over-estimating the importance of aligning the last line on pages.

Word is still a reasonable tool to do the editing but you need to export the file as PDF if you don't want to see the pagination change on different machines or printer drivers.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:26 AM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
Word is still a reasonable tool to do the editing but you need to export the file as PDF if you don't want to see the pagination change on different machines or printer drivers.

Sure, thats what I'm going to do - export as PDF.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
You might get some mileage in fiddling with the margin settings so the variability always falls within a 'line height' instead of toggling between x and x+1 lines.

Could you be so kind to explain this point in some more details. I'm not sure that I totally understood you here.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:49 AM
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If you have two different typefaces in your document then you are going to have variation in line heights. You might also have variation if you apply superscript or subscript to something (eg have a footnote). Are ALL styles specified with the exact same line height and zero space above and below?

If EVERY line on EVERY page was EXACTLY the same height, there SHOULDN'T be variation but maybe there is another factor in play that we haven't yet worked out. Some versions of Word document formats treat spaces at the top of the page differently - perhaps you could try looking at the Compatibility Mode of your Word 2013 document or also look at the document layout options at the bottom of the Options > Advanced area.

In terms of the margin settings, lets say your useable column height is the page height minus the top and bottom margins. Now lets assume that your content, for whatever reason fits either x or x+1 lines of content on it. Perhaps the variability is due to a margin less than one line - say 259mm of height fits 30 lines but every now and then it fits 31. If you varied the bottom margin by 1mm, you might discover that every page now contains 30 or 31 lines exactly. What about changing by 2mm? There may be a sweetspot where you get consistency on the line count.
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Last edited by Charles Kenyon; 09-23-2020 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 09-26-2020, 02:28 PM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
If you have two different typefaces in your document then you are going to have variation in line heights. You might also have variation if you apply superscript or subscript to something (eg have a footnote). Are ALL styles specified with the exact same line height and zero space above and below?

I understand this and if the fluctuation will occur only on pages with chapter headings I would accept this. But it really looks to be random.


There are no sub/superscripts and just 24 chapter heading on +-672 pages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
If EVERY line on EVERY page was EXACTLY the same height, there SHOULDN'T be variation

This is what I expect, frankly... But have not achieved.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
but maybe there is another factor in play that we haven't yet worked out. Some versions of Word document formats treat spaces at the top of the page differently - perhaps you could try looking at the Compatibility Mode of your Word 2013 document or also look at the document layout options at the bottom of the Options > Advanced area.

I'll study this, thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guessed View Post
In terms of the margin settings, lets say your useable column height is the page height minus the top and bottom margins. Now lets assume that your content, for whatever reason fits either x or x+1 lines of content on it. Perhaps the variability is due to a margin less than one line - say 259mm of height fits 30 lines but every now and then it fits 31. If you varied the bottom margin by 1mm, you might discover that every page now contains 30 or 31 lines exactly. What about changing by 2mm? There may be a sweetspot where you get consistency on the line count.

Wow. I'll try. Thank you.
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:15 PM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Please, take a look here. Here is a schematic example made from the book I'm working on (text is replaced with lorem ipsum). All the widow controls are switched off totally here. Text is completely uniform + one heading on the first page. I can understand why there is one line less on page 1 (because of heading). But why it is on page 5, 9, 18... There seems to be NO reasons for this...


I'm attaching docx and pdf as an example. If you can explain this to me, I'll be extremely thankful.
Attached Files
File Type: docx proba.docx (78.3 KB, 5 views)
File Type: pdf proba.pdf (133.1 KB, 4 views)
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:45 PM
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I had a look and can see the issue you are having. The first thing I noticed is that you have hyphenation turned on. If you turned that off, you would discover that all pages line up as you expect. I suspect you are quite attached to hyphenation so you may not want that as your quick fix.

I hoped that there might be a plausible reason for this - eg. Microsoft doesn't want to split hyphenated words across different pages. It appears this theory doesn't actually bear out so I discarded that theory.

Then I started playing with compatibilitymode to see if that had an effect. I did see pages start to align as expected when I tried different options such as one of the following. In fact, once I started, it didn't appear that I could make page alignment break again.

Activedocument.SetCompatibilityMode wdWord2010
Activedocument.SetCompatibilityMode wdWord2013
Activedocument.SetCompatibilityMode Application.Version

I'm not sure on your version of Word. You have said 2013 but your profile says 2003. All I can say is that you might get some useable results if you try changing compatibility modes on your doc. If you have v2013 then you can try 2007, 2010 and 2013 as all are available to you.

If that fails, perhaps you can do some more googling with hyphenation as a keyword.
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Old 09-27-2020, 04:14 AM
dum dum is offline Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Windows 8 Paragraph breaks do not allow page to fill fully Office 2003
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Great explanation! Thanks a lot! Yes, I absolutely need hyphenation, but your terms explained the problem. I'll googlt and study it.


The fact is that for real-life book make-up I need three features of Word


1) hyphenations
2) uniform non-breaking spaces (which I asked and solved here - https://www.msofficeforums.com/word/...ual-space.html)
3) and straight pagination we are discussing


I really hope there us the way to have them all.


And yes, my primary word is 2003 (I love it), but now I'm using 2013 for make-up, because only in it p.2 is solved.
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