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  #1  
Old 08-25-2019, 10:19 AM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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Default Unwanted space between two paragraphs...

I have a 274-page manuscript. It is set for no lines between paragraphs. This setting applies perfectly throughout the document, except for one paragraph. There is a phantom line between it and the paragraph above.



This extra line does not appear in my document view but does appear in the “preview” pane on the Paragraph settings menu, and it appears when I upload the document to the publishing company.

I’ve tried various paragraph settings (including “Keep lines together”), retyping both paragraphs in the document, retyping both paragraphs in Notepad and pasting them over the existing paragraphs. At one point, I thought I was successful in removing the extra space, but it reappeared between the next two paragraphs.

Is there an option that I may have overlooked?
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:23 PM
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Can you do a save as and remove all content other than the problematic paragraphs and post the document here so we can have a look and work out what is going on.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2019, 08:04 AM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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Default Phantom Line

I'm uploading the page from the manuscript where the line appears, and since the extra space is not visible in the document itself, an image of the Paragraph preview pane. The space appears on the preview and when the manuscript is uploaded to the publisher as well.
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File Type: jpg paragraph_preview.jpg (68.2 KB, 26 views)
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File Type: docx FACV2-08-26-19-EXCERPT.docx (25.1 KB, 10 views)
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Old 08-26-2019, 08:27 AM
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ProudLiberal ProudLiberal is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 7 64bit Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2010 64bit
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Turn on "Show / Hide". It looks like two line breaks are after the word Smile. If this is where the issue is, remove both breaks and replace with a paragraph break.
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File Type: jpg ShowHide.jpg (5.1 KB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg 001109.jpg (22.1 KB, 28 views)

Last edited by ProudLiberal; 08-26-2019 at 08:29 AM. Reason: missing jpg
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:07 AM
skeezix skeezix is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 97-2003
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I just clicked on the link you supplied and opened the docx file with OpenOffice. I could not see any space between the paragraphs, just a new line. (I use Word 2000 which does not open a docx file.)


I see the problem you are having, but with my Win10 system it doesn't appear here.


Can you select the paragraph that has the extra space at the top, then type CTRL+Space Bar, and then type CTRL+Q? See if that doesn't fix the problem.
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:35 AM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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Default Phantom Line

My bad: The problem is with the paragraph that starts "His friends called him Tommo." I checked the document and there's only a paragraph symbol above it.

I'm not sure what the instructions "Control+Space" and "Control+Q" are supposed to do--but it changed the font and formatting (no indention) and pushed the phantom line down to above the next paragraph.

Also, the space never appears in the .docx itself, only in the paragraph preview pane (see picture), and when I upload it to the publishers website.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:44 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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I looked at your page and can't find the space.
Here is from my preview.


What happens if you print?
Print as PDF?


Can your publisher accept pdf rather than Word?
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Old 08-26-2019, 11:02 AM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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Default Phantom Line

I know; it's maddening since you can't see it in the document itself--it only appears in previews.

I just printed the excerpt and the line doesn't appear. So that's good--maybe when the galley is printed the line won't be there. Only the ebook edition seems to be affected.

I'm a hair's breath from letting go. My readers probably won't even notice it. I'm just so freaking OCD... and it bugs the hell out of me.

Thanks for the replies.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:16 PM
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Your OCD seems very selective.

I'm not seeing the issue you described in that sample text in preview or print. I am seeing a lack of styles use and can't work out the point of making the chapter heading the same paragraph as the first 'paragraph' of text.

Perhaps you have used vertical justification for your section.
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Old 08-26-2019, 05:45 PM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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Using a forced return overrides the automatic indent setting. A common format for books is to NOT to indent the first line in each new chapter or chapter section.

I've only attempted using styles a couple times and never successfully. Each book seems to require a slightly different format or has special issues that don't fit within any one style. But to be honest, I've never set aside the time to learn how to use them properly.

Thanks for everyone's input; I'm calling this one. I'll just live with it.
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Old 08-26-2019, 07:40 PM
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Although your sample doc doesn't show your issue, I'm 95% sure the problem is coming about because your doc probably has vertical justification turned on with the section in your source doc (but not in the file you posted). If you go to the Page Setup dialog, Layout tab - what is the Vertical Alignment setting set to?

What you are calling 'forced return' is generally called a 'soft return' or a 'line break'. It is completely pointless in this sample because you didn't indent the first line of that paragraph (SMILE) anyway.

I would highly recommend you spend a little time to learn about styles because they are enormously useful and will completely change the way you deal with formatting issues.
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Old 08-27-2019, 08:07 AM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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Default Phantom Line

The Vertical Alignment is set to the default "Top" in the master document and the excerpt document. (I wasn't aware this setting existed.) Should it be something else? Could that affect just the one paragraph in 274 pages?

Re soft returns and indents: The document is set to automatically indent all new paragraphs. I only know two ways to suppress an indention: Use a "soft return" instead of a paragraph return ("hard return"?) just above any paragraph that you do not want indented (in this case "SMILE" and the 1st paragraph in the chapter). Or do it manually using the ruler function--but that seems the long way around.
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  #13  
Old 08-27-2019, 05:54 PM
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I could easily affect just one paragraph in 274 pages - it just depends on where your section breaks are. Does the issue appear on your machine using the file you posted here to check? Or was it resolved by creating that cut down file?

Your approach of three soft returns around a chapter title is a novel solution to avoiding indents on two paragraphs and the majority of Word users would approach that same requirement by using either:
1. local paragraph settings via ruler or Paragraph format dialog
2. styles

If it were me doing it, I would choose styles for the speed, flexibility and consistency it brings but it 'can' be done your way as long as you are prepared to put in the time and effort to make all the content consistent. 274 pages is a massive amount of work to standardise without styles.

I'm also surprised you are using continuous section breaks with different odd/even pages and first pages. How many section breaks are in your document?
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Old 08-27-2019, 06:49 PM
RobinPraytor RobinPraytor is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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I know this sounds unnatural from your perspective:

When a manuscript is completed and edited, I format it for the print version, which has front and back matter all formatted differently from the interior, with no headers, usually different fonts, and a required number/specific position of blank pages.

For the interior, all chapters must start on the right. I have an image to accompany each chapter which is placed on the left page, opposite the new chapter. Chapter numbers and names are stylized, designer fonts. If a chapter ends on the left page the right page is left blank. Blank pages, 1st pg. of a chap., and image pages don't have headers displaying the page number.

All other pages have headers with the author name and pg. # on the left, right justified; and book name and pg. # on right, left justified. Then there are images separating sections within chapters and some other, minor formatting standards depending on the publisher and/or printer. I use right/left section breaks to suppress headers and to create blank pages.

When the print version is perfect and uploaded, then I strip out the blank pages and headers to create the ebook version, but leave all the section breaks, etc., basically because there's no need to remove or change them. (To save print cost and reduce shipping weight, we often vertically adjust line spacing--but that wasn't necessary in this book except for the Table of Contents.)

I do use the ruler to set indents throughout, but where an indent is unwanted it's easier to do a shift + return than to change the ruler back and forth.

This is the first phantom line instance where I couldn't find a cause.

TMI?
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2019, 10:06 PM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is offline Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Windows 10 Unwanted space between two paragraphs... Office 2016
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You can have chapters start on the right by using an odd-page section break.
You need to use Styles to set your Indents; it will save you a lot of grief.
Importance of Styles in Word
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