Office 2016

Since i use Office 2016 i have a problem with horizontal spacing after the letter m.


The kerning option does not really help.

A few examples
Font Verdana (non Clear Type which prefer)

As you can see in the image, there is a larger space between the small m and the a (and no larger space between the capital M and the a).
It happens with font hight 9 and 10 but not with 8 and 11. Kerning off or on does not help.

But when i change the font to Clear Type (which i don't like), the problem is a lot less when kerning is used.


This happens within Word 2016 and Outlook 2016 but not in Excel 2016.
It doesn't matter if it's HTML, Rich text or Plain text. The space behind the small m is always there.
It does not happen on any other editor or whatever other place i use to write text. So it must be something inside Office linked to the Verdana font because with the
Another example is the Arial font:
Non Clear Type Arial (larger space behind the capital M with hight 9 and 11)

Clear Type Arial (no problem here)


Also in here it's ok, no extra spacing behind the m...
Mama

I used Office 2013 before where there is no problem, same goes for Office 2010 which i use at work, no problem either.
So why is there an extra space there behind the letter m in Office 2016?
And why the difference between the various fonts?

The problem may be due to your display driver and/or printer driver. Check the maker's websites for updates.

You may also be able to mitigate the problem by un/checking the 'optimize character positioning for layout rather than readability' display option.

__________________
Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

Display driver is certainly not the case (and is up to date). Because then it should also do this in other programs and it's only within Word/Outlook (and not in Excel).
Printer driver is ruled out since i don't have one installed 'cause simply i don't have a printer.

The option: 'optimize character positioning for layout rather than readability' was unchecked but checking it didn't do anything, unchecking again same result.

Still on the lookout for a solution...

Your assertion that the display driver can't be at fault is unfounded and shows a lack of understanding of how Word works. More importantly, though, the lack of a printer driver prevents Word from doing a proper layout. Unless there are issues with the display driver, installing and setting any print driver as the default printer will quite likely resolve the issue. Since you don't have a physical printer, the driver for one of the freeware PDF 'printers' might be your best option.

__________________
Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

Fair enough.


Printer: I do have a printer but it was not hooked up. The printer doesn't print anymore like it should (something mechanical broken inside :-( ) but it i can still set it up and use it and have the driver installed.
Therefore i installed the printer again (did not install it after i installed a new Windows 10 since it was a bit useless).
However, with the printer installed it does not solve the problem.

More info:
Previous setup (before the fresh install):
- Windows 10 Pro 64-bit upgrade from Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit.
- Office: 2013
No issues

Current setup:
- Windows 10 Pro fresh with Anniversary upgrade
- Office: 2016 (there was no Office 2013 installed on this setup)
Issues: see first post

Things i tried:
Regular text editors: no problem
Office: Problems as mentioned in Word/Outlook/PowerPoint. No problem with Excel.
PowerPoint: The problem also exists in PowerPoint but the outcome is different. There the space between the capital M and the a is bigger then between the small m and the a. Also, it looks different with different font hights compared to Word/Outlook.
OpenOffice: Tried this today: Same happens inhere as in MS-Office although the result is not the same, the spacing between the letters is different but noticable. Kerning does not help (it changes the format but does not solve the problem).
Everyting i type on the internet (like in forums like this) show no issue.

I also did some tests at work yesterday: Windows 7 with Office 2007: no issues at all.

Another test i did was using other fonts:
A few examples:
In Outlook 2016 (Word is the same): All fonts have some issues, some more then others.


In OpenOffice (compare the Verdana with the one from Office 2016 !!):

It really isn't particularly relevant how other programs perform, since they don't use Word's layout engine. Even so, Open Office appears to exhibit some of the same issues, so your display driver is looking even more likely to be the culprit. That said, you might try repairing the Office installation (via Start > Windows Control Panel > Programs > Programs & Features > Microsoft Office (version) > Change > Repair).

__________________
Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

One more question then:
If i change the font setting to Clear Type, the problem is gone (but that is just what i don't want to do).
Let's see what various video drivers do (although i don't think it will make the slightest difference).

Without wanting to place too fine a point on it, Clear Type interacts with your display driver. Given that it's designed specifically for improving font display and improving font display resolution, I don't understand your objections to using it. Without it, your display driver will have greater difficulty positioning characters correctly on screen...
See: https://www.microsoft.com/typography...ClearType.mspx

__________________
Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

I know what ClearType is, i just don't like it. For my personal taste letters (or fonts for that matter) always look a bit fuzzy in Clear Type and i don't have that whan i don't use ClearType.
I always prefer the Black & White text examples instead of the offered ClearType when put next to each other. "For me" it just looks a lot better.
Maybe i should get used to it because Microsoft is pushing this more and more to be non-changeable (ex: Internet Explorer and now the menu's in Win10). I just stopped using Internet Explorer because of that (started on IE 8) because they pushed their own fonts over the (still changeable) Windows font settings.
The problem in Office did not exist in any of my previous setups (from Win95 all the way to my previous install Win8.1Pro upgrade to Win10). It only showed since the new fesh Win 10 install.
I'm also eager to install Office 2013 again to see if there's a difference.
But i go for a few older drivers first.

Actions taken:
- Since the nVidia driver contains profiles for all Office programs, i started there, changing various setups. No solution.
- Then i set the registry back to it's orginal state regarding fonts for menu's, icon etc... (just used the backups i made when changing them). Same thing can be done through a tweaker but i do this directly through the registry. No solution.
- Then checked these changes where put back to orginal by running a tweaker and see what was set as default. All good, Windows 10 is back in it's original state. No solution.
- Then played around with 3 different video driver versions. Went back to over 1,5 years old. No solution.
- Then removed the last one i installed as test and used the one that comes standard with Windows 10. No solution.
- Then i installed Office 2010 with some result. There's clearly a difference between Word 2010 and Word 2016. Just check the spacing:


Both have some weird spacing between the letters, sometimes it's big, sometimes it's small or non existant but both programs differ in output.
Also check the a's on Verdana 9 in Word 2010. Sometimes there's more space between the letters a, sometimes not, like on the last 3 a's. The same thing happens in OpenOffice.
One thing where it does not occur is in any text in a cell in Excel. There the spacing is all equal...? In both versions, 2010 and 2016.

Now, i'm 100%, no make that 200% that in my previous setup, Win 10 upgraded from Win 8.1 this did not exist (nor did it in Win 7 and before).

I also did another check between both office versions:
The standard font for both is Calibri 11.
This font behaves a lot better but if you look closely...
Result:


The 2010 version definatly looks better then the 2016 version. The Calibri font show minor problems compared to the Verdana font.
The standard Calibri 11 font has no problems (or at least so minor that there not really visible or catch the eye). The Verdana 11 on the 2016 Word isn't bad either.

Still, since it can't be a driver issue anymore (at least not an nVidia one since all traces of that one have gone), it could only be some Windows 10 thing... but what?

Edit: Fonts like Segou UI are just perfect (or the differences are so small there not noticable). But that's a font that i don't want.
I never understood why Mircosoft are pushing their own fonts without the (direct) ability to change them. It started of with IE8 and spreads more and more.

One question: How does it print out? How about pdf?

It's prints out perfectly fine, same goes for pdf.
On both the spacing is corrected and equal between each letter.

If the print's OK, then it's definitely a display issue. Using ClearType may well resolve it...

__________________
Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

It might but then not using ClearType was never a problem until now.
It might be a display problem but then i want to know why and what's causing it.
I don't accept: "it's like that now, get used to it" i don't want to accept (yet).
If it would have been there all the time, it would be normal. This ain't.

Did some more testing after the printing/pdf result.
In Outlook: Only editor and reading panes are effected by the spacing problem. Other parts of Outlook are just fine. The titles on the various e-mail listed in the subject pane do not have the spacing problem, nor do the titles of the mails in the reading pane. It's just the content.
Subject:


Reading pane title of the mail:



Therefore i sended a mail from a webmail to myself but loaded it with Outlook.
The title is OK in the mail list. The title is OK in the reading pane but the text within the mail is not.
Also, the spacing is not always off but occurs more like in groups:

The small a's are grouped in 5 and then there is an extra space.
The capital A's have the same issue (if you look closely you see the legs don't touch after each group).
The b's however are grouped in 2 and then an extra space is added. This goes on 6 times and then a 3th b is added to the next group.
It's different for each letter...

I don't want to go ClearType just yet to solve this because ClearType messes up my colomn settings in Excel.
Some sheets i use just cover the entire screen nicely. With ClearType on they grow bigger which makes i have to scroll and all is not in one view anymore.

Another example where spacing is wrong and and correct in de same program:

Word 2016:

In the screenshot below, the typed text in the word document is is on top of the screenshot and as you can see the spacing is off between the characters.
If i then select this text and open the font options it will give an preview of this text in the chosen font near the bottom of the font setting. There the spacing of the same text is correct, 100% OK.
So i'm still scratching my head on this one...LOL.



After this i played around with enanced and condensed spacing and with the kerring option. These al change the way the text looks but do not solve the spacing problem.