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Old 09-03-2012, 08:16 PM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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Question Endnotes within Footnotes?

Hey, so I'm writing a novel that calls for both endnotes and footnotes--the footnotes are one voice, the endnotes are another. Thus, sometimes, there will be footnotes that end with an endnote, one narrative voice referring to another



However, MS word doesn't seem to allow me to do this...its probably in the style guides that endnotes and footnotes are mutually exclusive, but im doing fiction so rules are decidedly looser here.

Is there any way I can get this to work? Some sort of plug-in to download, a style thing, anything? My only alternative seems to be to create the endnotes manually, but this would take considerably longer + I plan for this to be an e-book, so I need the endnotes to hyperlink back and forth in the text.

Any help?
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:07 PM
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I can't recall ever seeing a novel that used either endnotes or footnotes, so I suspect you're either using the wrong terminology or the wrong tools. In any event, Word has no feature that limits the voice to a given portion of the document.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:44 AM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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you must not read much serious literature (sorry if this sounds passive-aggressive, its not meant to be lol)...some pretty famous books that make prominent use of traditionally academic devices like footnotes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Jest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Leaves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Fire

house of leaves in particular does a lot of tricks with formatting, including stuff similar to what I'm trying to get to work. my thinking being that if he got it to work there must be some way i can, right?
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:44 AM
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Footnotes and endnotes having footnotes or endnotes of their own is not something you'll find in the serious literature I work with - extensively. Indeed, the concept of using the as "a method of disrupting the linearity of the text" or to "reference books that do not exist" would automatically rule such a publication out of consideration in many circles. It's also not something you'll be likely to find support for with any word-processor.

So, to repeat my earlier advice:
Quote:
Word has no feature that limits the voice to a given portion of the document.
Nor does it have the capacity to create sub-footnotes or endnotes of footnotes or endnotes.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:14 PM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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Ah, okay.

Finding some of the defensiveness over the term serious literature a little confusing....when I say literature I am referring to important fiction, not technical journals or spreadsheets or whatever you're thinking...what circles do you work in that would rule a book out for having footnotes? Surely not ones that have been paying any attention at all to the literary world in the past 75 years. Do the names Pynchon, Delillo, Borges, David Foster Wallace, Gaddis, McCarthy, et al. mean anything at all to you?
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
what circles do you work in that would rule a book out for having footnotes?
I think you've mis-read what I wrote. Footnotes and endnotes are fine in themselves, used appropriately. Footnotes and endnotes having their own footnotes and endnotes is (AFAIK) nowehere accepted in the academic or technical realms, and footnotes and endnotes are certainly not accepted for the putposes espoused in the links you posted.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:23 PM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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But in any case, is there really no functional work around for this?

Like, is there a way I can manually make my own 'hyperlinks' that work like footnotes., i.e. you click the symbol and it brings you to the text?
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:39 PM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macropod View Post
I think you've mis-read what I wrote. Footnotes and endnotes are fine in themselves, used appropriately. Footnotes and endnotes having their own footnotes and endnotes is (AFAIK) nowehere accepted in the academic or technical realms, and footnotes and endnotes are certainly not accepted for the putposes espoused in the links you posted.
Ah, I see, of course, sorry if I sounded brash. In fiction, footnotes and endnotes work a little different--they usually are just as vital as the main text: they serve to get across a feeling of digression, recursion, et cetera. At least, that's how I'm wishing to use them. Maybe if I explained my project it'd be a bit more clear.

In my novel there's a chapter presented as a short story written by one of the main characters, a story written in third person and with endnotes commenting on various things.

That short story stars a character who is writing his own novel , and his novel has footnotes.

So there are several layers: I'm writing a story about a character writing a story about a character writing a story. There's a lot of recursion and bending inward, etc.

So if maybe the footnote function within Word may not help, like I asked just above, is there no ad hoc way to turn certain text into 'links'?
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:45 PM
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Word does, of course, support hyperlinking so that you can move to & from the hyperlinked content - just as clicking on footnote/endnote refereces takes you to/from the footnotes/endnotes. But whether those hyperlinks would work once you convert the document to the e-book format is something you'd need to test.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:52 PM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macropod View Post
Word does, of course, support hyperlinking so that you can move to & from the hyperlinked content - just as clicking on footnote/endnote refereces takes you to/from the footnotes/endnotes. But whether those hyperlinks would work once you convert the document to the e-book format is something you'd need to test.
ah, this sounds very promising. Where can I find these tools in Word? I tried searching online for a bit of instructional help but whenever I use the keyword 'hyperlink' it brings me tutorials on how to use links that refer to web addresses and such.

Thank you very much in advance, and again, I apologize if my tone has been anything less than cordial at any time. This conundrum just has me a little frazzled: everything else in my mss is done, I just need to piece it all together into one neat document!
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:58 PM
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See Insert|Hyperlink. Typically, you'd create a bookmark for the hyperlink destination, then hyperlink to it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:03 PM
elias elias is offline Endnotes within Footnotes? Windows 7 32bit Endnotes within Footnotes? Office 2010 32bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macropod View Post
See Insert|Hyperlink. Typically, you'd create a bookmark for the hyperlink destination, then hyperlink to it.
Voila! It works beautifully now, exactly what I wanted! It'll be a bit of slog inserting these links--I'll have to do additional hyperlinks/bookmarks to also refer back to the text--but functionally this seems to be precisely the thing I've been needing. Now to wrangle with the e-book converter, fingers crossed that it carries over!

Again, thanks very much for the assistance!
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:12 PM
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You shouldn't need to insert links to go back - In the e-book, simply clicking on the back button should be enough to achieve that. To get the same functionality in Word, add the forward & back buttons to the QAT.
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