Far out it's like a puzzle. Thanks heaps for the break down. I feel like I'm getting close to getting a grasp on it but I still need to re-read the explanation another couple of times sleep on it and muck around with both your codes. This example just showed me how many ways there are to do the same thing, I hadn't realized. I thought it would be alot more constrained but it's more like pick your own adventure. Thanks for the help.