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Old 12-24-2014, 11:34 AM
legaleagle legaleagle is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 64bit
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Default How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content?

I have come across a word document conundrum: a friend has a word file that has the same exact date created and date modified down to the second, which means that it was never accessed/worked upon. Yet the file size is 22 KB. How is this possible? If one opens that document, it would change the date modified even if it is for a second. Even if one were to copy/paste a file, it retains the date modified/created data.



Help me solve this riddle, guys.

Last edited by Charles Kenyon; 01-07-2015 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Mark as solved
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Old 12-24-2014, 11:13 PM
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gmayor gmayor is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 32bit
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A newly created empty file, saved and closed, would have the same dates for creation. modification and access and be around 20k in file size.

The dates associated with a file are easily changed externally from Word so have little relevance beyond being a guide. The following illustration is of the same file.

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Old 12-26-2014, 07:41 AM
legaleagle legaleagle is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 64bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmayor View Post
A newly created empty file, saved and closed, would have the same dates for creation. modification and access and be around 20k in file size.

The dates associated with a file are easily changed externally from Word so have little relevance beyond being a guide. The following illustration is of the same file.

So, to confirm, there is no possible way this document has content inside, unless of course they used outside software to edit the date modified/time created info for the file?

Thank you very much in advance.
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Old 12-26-2014, 08:25 AM
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gmayor gmayor is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 32bit
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I will only go so far as to repeat that the dates associated with a file are not a reliable indicator of the times and dates they purport to represent.
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Old 12-26-2014, 11:34 PM
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macropod macropod is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 32bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
So, to confirm, there is no possible way this document has content inside, unless of course they used outside software to edit the date modified/time created info for the file?
It would be quite possible to create a document of, say, 100 pages by copying & pasting content from another document, then saving and have the same date & time stamps for creation, modification & access. Files downloaded from email attachments commonly will also exhibit the same characteristics.
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:42 PM
fumei fumei is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office XP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
So, to confirm, there is no possible way this document has content inside, unless of course they used outside software to edit the date modified/time created info for the file?
There is no real relationship between content and date attributes.
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Old 01-06-2015, 02:00 PM
legaleagle legaleagle is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 64bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macropod View Post
It would be quite possible to create a document of, say, 100 pages by copying & pasting content from another document, then saving and have the same date & time stamps for creation, modification & access. Files downloaded from email attachments commonly will also exhibit the same characteristics.
But it would not have a modification/creation difference of 0:00. It would have a time difference between modification/creation of however long it was open and subsequently saved.

Is the above assumption correct? Thank you very much for your response.
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Old 01-06-2015, 02:02 PM
legaleagle legaleagle is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 64bit
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Thank you very much for your help.
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Old 01-06-2015, 02:05 PM
legaleagle legaleagle is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 64bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fumei View Post
There is no real relationship between content and date attributes.
Right, but in order for a file to be modified and thus have content, there must be a difference between date created and date last modified, as one must open the file and save it (thereby changing the date modified data). Is this assumption correct? I've run some experiments and I have not been able to come up with a way that a word document can have content inside and still have a 0:00 time difference between date modified and date created.
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Old 01-06-2015, 02:18 PM
Cosmo Cosmo is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows Vista How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2007
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The creation date is not when the document was created in the application, it's when the file was created.

If you create a new document, then leave it open for a week on your computer before saving it, it will have the creation date when it was saved, not when it was actually created in the application. So, the first time it is saved, it will have the same dates for creation and modification. And as mentioned, the date information is not usually retained when the file is sent via email; the creation date will be the date the attachment was saved, regardless of when the original document was created.
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Old 01-06-2015, 05:57 PM
jjfreedman jjfreedman is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
But it would not have a modification/creation difference of 0:00. It would have a time difference between modification/creation of however long it was open and subsequently saved.

Is the above assumption correct? Thank you very much for your response.
The assumption is not correct. One very simple way to create a file with equal creation and modification dates/times is to use the Save As command in Word to save the modified document to a new file name. You could then delete or rename the original file, and change the name of the new file to the original name. Done.

Another way is to use a program to change the file's dates and times. The original program from Unix is called Touch, and there are lots of Windows implementations, e.g. http://sourceforge.net/projects/touchforwindows/
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:00 PM
fumei fumei is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office XP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
Right, but in order for a file to be modified and thus have content, there must be a difference between date created and date last modified, as one must open the file and save it (thereby changing the date modified data). Is this assumption correct? I've run some experiments and I have not been able to come up with a way that a word document can have content inside and still have a 0:00 time difference between date modified and date created.
Your "thus have content" is simply not correct - what if the content is...nothing.

Your "must be a difference between date created and date last modified" is not correct. The point about email attachments is good.

PLUS it is easy to mess with the dates if one wants. Dates are not a serious indicator of much. And again have no real relationship to content.
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Old 01-06-2015, 11:16 PM
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gmayor gmayor is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 32bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
there must be a difference between date created and date last modified.
It doesn't matter how many times you rephrase the question. Times and dates associated with files are no indication whatsoever of the content.
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Old 01-07-2015, 06:59 AM
Charles Kenyon Charles Kenyon is online now How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 32bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legaleagle View Post
Right, but in order for a file to be modified and thus have content, there must be a difference between date created and date last modified, as one must open the file and save it (thereby changing the date modified data). Is this assumption correct? I've run some experiments and I have not been able to come up with a way that a word document can have content inside and still have a 0:00 time difference between date modified and date created.
Given your handle, I am assuming that two cents from a lawyer may matter to you. I may be wrong in that assumption.

You are assuming that the labels put on these dates by Microsoft bear some resemblance to common usage of the terms. They are dates and times. They have some meaning if they haven't been fiddled with (but they can be fiddled with). The meaning they have is not what you understand.

I have many files where the modification date is earlier than the creation date. I have not fiddled with the dates and times, those were attached to the file by Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Word.

All of the others who have responded to you understand Word far better than do I. Believe them when they tell you that these dates have no useful function for verifying anything about a document. At best, they may provide hints. I find the Date fields very useful, especially the CreateDate field, but I do not trust them to tell me anything about a document.

Using Date Fields in Microsoft Word
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Old 01-07-2015, 08:31 AM
legaleagle legaleagle is offline How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Windows 7 64bit How can a document have the same date modified/create date, yes have have actual file content? Office 2010 64bit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmayor View Post
It doesn't matter how many times you rephrase the question. Times and dates associated with files are no indication whatsoever of the content.
Understood. Thank you for your input.
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